Carolyn Kelley- Streaks Girls Basketball in the 1970's

Carolyn Kelley was an outstanding student at Galesburg High School. Carolyn and her brother after college eventually went into the "family business," education. Their father was in higher education at Carl Sandburg College, and their mother was a grade school teacher at Hitchcock. Scott went onto become a professor at the University of Kentucky, and Carolyn became a professor at the University of Wisconsin, as well as an author of several books and numerous publications. While Carolyn was a very impressive high school student when she graduated in 1978,  her career as an educator was even more impressive. 

I asked Carolyn if she would do a Q/A with me partly because I wanted to give myself a chance to bring up Wisconsin's crushing win over her brother's helpless Kentucky team in the 2015 Final Four. 

Mainly I felt Carolyn could give an interesting perspective about playing basketball at GHS in the 1970's during Streaks girls basketball's early years. I especially feel she has a unique perspective having played as girls basketball was getting started, while Scott was playing boys basketball during Galesburg's glory days. 

Carolyn summed up the importance of looking back on the beginning of girls basketball in this way-- "I think in the current context, when women's sports are starting to get a fan base and more attention, it is important to remember the history of unequal support."

Massey- Where did you go for undergrad and then for grad?

Carolyn- I went to the University of Illinois undergrad and majored in journalism (the influence of being active on the GHS school newspaper, the Budget throughout high school, no doubt, plus Watergate had recently reared its ugly head and highlighted the importance of journalism to our democracy.  A lesson we are forgetting, I'm afraid.

After that, I worked for the Illinois State Scholarship Commission for a year in Springfield and met someone who had just graduated with a master's degree in public policy (a new field at the time) from the University of Michigan.  That sounded really interesting to me, and I went to the University of Michigan from 1983-85 for my master's degree.  I landed an internship with the federal government in 1985 and went to work at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services in Washington, D.C. for 2 years.  Afterwards, I decided to go back to grad school, worked at home for a year to save money, and then moved to California and went to get my PhD from Stanford University in Educational Administration and Policy Analysis.

Massey- What did you teach at UW?

Carolyn- I got the job at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in 1993 and spent my career here.  I taught a number of different courses, but primarily organizational theory, politics of education, and research methods.  

Massey- What was your favorite subject or unit or lesson as a teacher? 

Carolyn- My favorite subject was probably organizational theory.  I study leadership and am very interested in the ways that leaders build the capacity of those around them, and foster and enable the growth and development of others, as they move the organization forward.  I think we all spend so much of our lives in organizations, and we don't often think about how the structure, culture, and processes in organizations shape our behavior and experience.  I love to give students new lenses to see how organizations can shape behavior.

Massey- What are your best memories about growing up in Galesburg? 

Carolyn- My best memories of growing up in Galesburg:  summers swimming at Lake Lawn; playing as a kid in Lake Storey Park; tennis lessons in the summer; playing basketball wherever and whenever I could.  My Mom taught at Hitchcock school, and she used to let my friend Susan Pavlat and I come and play basketball in the gym when she was working on weekends and in the summer.  

At GHS best memories include working on the student newspaper (until 2 in the morning every other week to get the paper done), playing basketball, volleyball, and field hockey; watching the Streaks guys playing basketball and football; the boys beating Richwoods and going to state when my brother Scott was a senior.  Fond memories of working at Swedoughs Donut Shop on weekends during the school year and being the only staff person there on the afternoon/evening shift in the summer; going to the Presbyterian Church and singing in the choir with my friends; riding my bike all over town on the bumpy brick streets.

Massey- Growing up, when did you first get involved in organized basketball? Were there YMCA teams or city teams or JH teams?

Carolyn- Women's sports were just starting when I was growing up and there weren't opportunities for girls to play in sports, especially young girls.  Title IX was passed in 1972 - when I was 12 - and that was really the beginning of public school investment in opportunities for women in sports.  I remember when I was in high school, I did an investigative article for the school newspaper about the inequality that remained in opportunities for girls in sports.  When I started in high school, Terry Hoehn was the coach for pretty much every women's sport except tennis and track.  She got paid almost nothing to coach volleyball, basketball, and field hockey.  Realizing the unequal investment was illegal under Title IX, I talked to Mr. Lundeen, the athletic director, about the significant salary differences between the coaches of girls' and boys' sports, and he insisted that the coaches of girls' sports got less money than the boys' coaches because the seasons were of different lengths.  But the tennis coach was the same person for both girls' and boys' tennis, and he got (as I remember) $800 to coach the boys and $200 to coach the girls, even though the girls and boys practiced and conducted meets together - a clear violation of Title IX.  

Also, when I started high school, the girls' varsity basketball team had to leave after school and find transportation across town to Hitchcock elementary school to practice in the elementary school gym.  The gym might have been regulation size, but the walls came right up to the edge of court.  We never got to practice in the high school gym.  While the varsity girls practiced at Hitchcock, the high school scheduled boy's intermural basketball in the high school gym.  So when we played home games, we played in a gym that we never got to practice in.

I was delighted to hear when you were selected to coach the girls basketball team after I left because I thought it was a sign that the school was just then beginning to invest in girls' sports (6 years after Title IX was passed).

Massey- You were in a unique situation having an older brother who played bb. Scott played in what might be considered GHS’s “glory days.” So you saw how boys bb was treated. When you started playing, girls bb was really new. Did you feel frustrated by how girls bb was treated compared to boys bb? Or was girls bb so new that you didn’t really think about it and just figured “that’s how it is”?

As you rightly point out, (boys') basketball was king when I was growing up, and I was both a part of that culture - going to all the games, participating in the hype, but also got to see firsthand how unequal the resources and attention were to girls' and boys' sports.  I was both proud of my brother, and frustrated with the way the girls were treated.  I had great respect for the girls' coach, Terry Hoehn, for all of the blood, sweat and tears she put in providing opportunities for us to participate in sports.  She was learning along with us, but she never faltered in her commitment to giving us those opportunities.

I think the world was a different place back then.  As girls, we saw the inequities and took a lot of crap that people don't tolerate these days in quite the same way.  When I went to work at HHS in Washington D.C. in 1983, all of the black women were secretaries, and when I was invited as an intern into the big budget meeting for the agency, I was the only woman in a room full of about 50 older white men.  When I started my job at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, there were no people of color in my department, and I was only the third woman faculty member in the department.  It has been a long, slow climb, but now the department is very diverse, and we have a black woman department chair and a new black woman Dean.  I look back on that shift in the department as one of our greatest accomplishments.  We have not leveled the playing field yet, there is so much left to do, but seeing the recognition that Caitlin Clark and the WNBA are beginning to receive is a really positive sign of change.  There are also many more opportunities for girls today, although the structure of early coaching for girls is still way behind the boys.

Massey- Where did you practice? Where were your games? How many people were at your games?

Carolyn- We practiced at the Hitchcock elementary school gym.  Our games tended to be in the main high school gym but with very small audiences.  Typically, there would be a small group of moms with maybe 5 to 10 people at the away games.  By the time I was a senior, we were in the sectionals tournament and the stands were maybe half full for that.

Massey- My questions have been pretty negative. What are positive memories you have about playing bb at GHS?

Carolyn- Sports were a really important part of my life growing up.  I loved playing basketball.  I loved being a part of a team and working hard to get better and compete.  Some of my teammates were my best friends and I have great memories of all of my experiences - from practices to games.  Lots of good life lessons.

Massey- Would you have a message to today’s Streaks players?

Carolyn- It's such a different world now, but I guess my message would be to recognize the progress we have made.  Change takes time and the commitment of each of us to keep the momentum of progress moving forward.  Digging a little deeper and pushing yourself a little harder on those Saturday morning practices pays off on the court.  And when you see ways that the school can better support you, or better level the playing field between girls' and boys' sports, don't be afraid to speak out and raise your voices.  Progress is slow, but small incremental changes add up and if you can't right the wrong for your team, you may be putting in motion changes that will make a huge difference for your children's generation.

Massey- I am sure when Wisconsin got ready to play Kentucky in men’s bb Final Four in 2015, Scott was very arrogant and overly confident. How satisfying was it when the Badgers won? Did Scott ever apologize and admit that Wisconsin is more of a bb school than Kentucky?

Carolyn- Scott has never apologized for Kentucky basketball, and I think it would be too much to hope that he ever will!  But it was a very sweet victory for me as a Badger fan!

Massey- Your professional career, and your thoughtful analysis of your past experiences are so impressive. The toughness, persistence, and the push for change that you, your teammates, and so many young women had, has allowed girls basketball in Galesburg and everywhere to be what it is today. I hope your words help present day players appreciate the players who came before them. Thanks Carolyn for sharing!